たぶん、多くの人がMozart, L'Opéra Rockの曲として挙げるのは、L'assasymphonieとか、Le bien qui fait malなのかなあと思うのですが（曲としてかっこいいし、ダンスとかも、Mozart, l'opéra rockの独特の世界観が全開だし。）、個人的に一番好きな歌は、Vivre à en creverというモーツァルトとサリエリ２人がミュージカル最後に歌う曲（モーツァルトの昇天の曲でもある。）です。
もちろん、物語上の二人の関係を歌った歌ではあるのですが、詞が実は、タイトルのVivre à en crever（vivreは生きる、creverははち切れる、破裂するというような意味＝はちきれんばかりに生きて＝人生を謳歌しよう）が示すように、「生きる」ことのbitter sweetさを実にうまく表現した曲です。
**The first part of the interview is here.** **日本語版はこちらです。**
Ouf... It's almost two months but... here is the second part of the interview of Richard (Charest). Korean tour has already ended and now the Taiwanese tour has just begun! I imagine that four-month-period tour would be quite tough, but I really wish great success of the show.
In the latter half of the interview, I asked about the return of the original French version of Notre Dame de Paris, recent trends in French musicals and Richard's own musical "Rimbaud". My English translation is not so good, but I do hope you will enjoy it.
(Thank you my friend S and K for correcting my poor French!)
On y va!
Notre Dame de Paris Tour 2015
Good luck with Taiwan Tour!
*******************
Firstly, I asked about how he felt about the return of the original French version and what the French language means to him.
-
Cette fois, c'est en version originale c'est-à-dire française. Y a-t’il
des différences en jouant en français et anglais? En tant que
Québécois, que représente la langue française pour vous?
‐ This time, it's in the original version, that is, French. When you play the role, is there any difference between in English and in French ? And, as a Quebecois, what does French language mean to you?
R:
Le spectacle a été créé en langue française donc toutes les paroles ont
respecté la mélodie et les mélodies ont respecté les paroles donc ça a
été créé pour que ça sonne de cette façon. Non seulement c'est agréable à
entendre parce que la langue française est quand même une très jolie
langue, mais pour un interprète de langue française c'est encore plus
important de pouvoir défendre le spectacle dans la langue originale...
Et pour avoir l'occasion de le faire en anglais pendant deux ou trois
ans, ça a été un bonheur de revenir, on se rend compte à quel point le
spectacle original est de bonne qualité. Donc c'est très important. En
plus en tant que Québécois, sur un continent où il y'a très peu de
francophones, il y'a la présence américaine et Canada anglais donc on
n'est pas très nombreux en français donc on met encore plus d’importance
à défendre la langue. Donc effectivement c'est très très important.
R:
The musical was created in the French language so all of the lyrics respected the melody and the melodies respected the lyrics so it was created to sound in such way. Not only is it pleasant to hear, because the French language is indeed a very beautiful language but for a performer of French language, it's even more important to be able to protect the musical in original language... And as we had an occasion to perform it in English for two or three years, it was really fortunate to return (in original language), I realized how great the quality of the original musical was. So it's very important. Moreover, as a Quebecois, on the continent where there are very few francophones, there are the presence of the States and the anglophone Canada so there are not so many people who speak French so we put even more emphasis on protecting the language. So actually it's very very important.
I cannot agree with him more about what is said above about Notre Dame. When I watched it at Sejong Centre, I felt that the music and lyrics (language) were complementary and almost inseparable. I believe every language has its own "aura" or "unique world" and personally, the French language is really eloquent when one tries to express his/her own emotion. Like I have written in the previous post, it was almost like the language talked to me with full of emotions and penetrated myself. It was something that I had never felt when I watched the English version.
The question about Quebecois was in fact just out of my curiosity, but I always had an impression that Richard had a deep respect for his mother tongue French. And I was also curious about the unique Quebecois culture, which is a mixture of French and Anglo Saxon culture, so I continued to ask about what it means to live in two languages.
Richard during the interview (Photo Credit: Binna)
-
Vous êtes Canadien, donc vous pourriez jouer un rôle en anglais. Mais
est-ce que vous préférez jouer des rôles en français?
- You are Canadian, so you could play a role in English. But do you prefer to play the roles in French?
R:
D'abord, c'est une opportunité professionnelle, c'est curieux parce que
j'avais cette conversation a tout à l'heure dans la loge : quelqu'un
qui me demandait si je souhaitais commencer à travailler en anglais à
Toronto… donc Canada au anglais. C'est quelque chose que j'aimerais
faire pour découvrir mais quand l’opportunité de faire Notre Dame de
Paris se présente, on saisit l'occasion et on y va. En plus le rôle est
magnifique, la langue aussi... moi j'écris en plus des chansons, j'écris
des pièces de théâtre et livrets de spectacle... c'est capital la langue
française pour moi. Donc avoir cette possibilité-là de venir dans des
pays non-francophones et de présenter et défendre un rôle pareil c'est
une chance incroyable.
R: First, it's a professional opportunity. It's curious because I had a conversation in the dressing room a little while ago that I was asked if I wished to start to work in English in Toronto... so anglophone Canada. It's something that I would like to do for discovering (a new opportunity) but when the opportunity to play Notre Dame de Paris is presented, I took that opportunity and here I am. Besides the role is great and the language too... In addition, I myself write songs, I write the play and the script of musical... The language is capital, for me. So having such possibility to come to the non-French speaking countries and to present and protect the same role is incredibly fortunate.
- A l’avenir, est-ce que vous souhaitez jouer d'autres rôles en anglais, comme à Broadway ou au West End?
- In the future, do you wish to play other roles in English, like in Broadway or in West End?
R:
Oui, oui. J'aimerais beaucoup parce que je découvre que le répertoire
francophone de comédie musicale est beaucoup plus limité que celui
anglophone avec Broadway ou West End... Donc il y'a des rôles sublimes
dans Les Misérables ou Phantom of the Opera ou Jekyll et Hyde. Il y'a
tellement des jolis rôles pour des hommes donc j'aimerais bien. En plus
quand on vieillit, il y'a beaucoup plus de possibilités en anglais qu’en
français. C'est-à-dire que dans les rôles comme Notre Dame de Paris, je
pourrais pas faire Gringoire encore très très longtemps, d'ailleurs je
ne pourrai plus vraiment faire Phœbus non plus, on a besoin d’un jeune
soldat donc il y'a pas beaucoup d'autre possibilités après. Ici je suis
encore trop jeune pour faire Frollo, et je serais bientôt trop vieux
pour faire Gringoire, donc il y'a un genre d’espace où en anglais ils
appellent ça le "No man's land". En comédie musicale, le "No man's land"
c'est vraiment l’endroit où en tant qu’interprète tu sais plus si t'est
trop vieux ou pas assez vieux, mais en anglais il y'a quand même pas
mal d'autres possibilités donc j'aimerais explorer aussi de prochains
lieux.
R:Yes, yes. I would really love to because I find that the francophone repertories of musicals are much more limited that of anglophone with Broadway or West End... So there are sublime roles in Les Misérables or Phantom of the Opera or Jekyll and Hyde. There are so many beautiful roles for the people so I would love to. Besides, when you get old, there are much more possibilities in English than in French. That is, in the roles of Notre Dame de Paris, I would not be able to play Gringoire forever, besides I would not really be able to play Phœbus any more -because we need a young soldier- so there are not so many possibilities after that. Now, I'm still too young to play the role of Frollo and soon I will be too old to play Gringoire... There is a kind of place where in English it's called "No man's land (laugh)". In the world of musical, "No man's land" is really a place where as a performer, you don't really know you're too old or not old enough. But in English, there are still other possibilities that are not so bad. So I would also like to explore the next place.
Credit Photo: Binna
I believe it was a bit nosy question (Desolée Richard!) but I was always wondering how he thinks about playing the role in English. I was a bit surprised at his answer but like he had said, the works, audience and market of French musicals are by far not comparable to that of Anglophone musicals. So it was a quite natural answer I guess. In fact I would love to see him in other roles either in English or French in the future.
And when I hear him saying "when you get old..." I was petrified! I mean... I know everyone gets old. No exception. But probably this is the last word that I had expected from Richard lol As a fan, it was quite heartbreaking to think about "the last time", but his remark reminded me of the famous saying in Japanese "Ichi-go ichi-e" meaning "treasure every encounter, for it may never happen again (so you have to make most of it)". Every show appears just once, because each performance is actually a unique one, so in fact it will never happen again. Each scene, each moment is just precious. So it made me feel that I had to engrave every moment in my heart and feel grateful for being there.
Richard talked about playing the role of Frollo, and of course he is still too young to play the role (besides, now M. Robert Marien is just spectacular!!!), but if he ever plays the role Frollo in the future, I bet he is going to be a quite handsome (and perhaps hot) Frollo! Aside from the jokes, I think he will be able to play Frollo's troubled yet complex persona beautifully (I imagine that his rendition of "Tu Vas Me Détruire" will nail it!). Besides, if this will come true, he will probably become the first singer who plays the three roles in Notre Dame de Paris!
His reference to "no
man's land" was also quite interesting for me. I have a huge respect for the artists. Because, as you know, it is quite different from the life as 9-5 worker like me. It is quite a tough world to make one's own life just by his/her talent. I simply admire their strong passion, will and the power/courage to believe in his/herself.
Next, I asked about the recent trend of French musicals. I am just a fan of French musicals so probably it was a bit arrogant to say this, but in general I believe that the recent commercially successful French musicals have a tendency that the "showiness" is much valued than the "story telling". Richard often talked about the importance of the story in his musical (Rimbaud Spectacle) so I asked a little bit about it.
Richard at Singapore tour in 2013
-
La prochaine question concerne la récente tendance des comédies
musicales françaises. Quand j'étais à Paris, je parlais avec Arnaud de
ce sujet mais je crois que les Comédies musicales françaises concernent
de plus en plus les ados ou les enfants. J'ai vu par exemple 1789, où
les effets spéciaux, le décor, les costumes et la danse sont magnifiques
mais où l'histoire n'était pas assez transmise. Les chansons sont
également plutôt tournées vers la variété française. J’ai l’impression
qu’il s’agit d’un "concert with the costumes"... Vous comprenez?
- The next question is concerned with the recent trend of French musicals. When I traveled in Paris last year, I talked a little bit about it with Arnaud (*Arnaud Kerane. Co-writer of the Rimbaud Spectacle Musical. I met him in Paris last December for asking about their musical.). I believe that French musicals concern more and more young people and children. For example, I saw 1789 (*French musical about French Revolution performed in 2012 and 2013. I watched this musical in Paris.), and I was quite impressed with the special effects, costumes and dance but I had an impression that the story was less payed attention. And the songs are also more like French pops. For me, it looked like a "concert with the costumes"... Do you understand what I'm saying?
R:
Oui, oui oui. Vous avez raison. Absolument. Parce que après cette
question de goût, on peut aimer ou ne pas aimer les spectacles
francophones, mais c'est un tour de chants pop avec une histoire qui est
souvent pas très mis en évidence, ce qui importe c'est pas
nécessairement que les gens dans la salle comprennent toute l’histoire,
comment ça se passe, les personnages et interaction… il faut avoir de
très bonnes chansons qui passent à la radio, il faut avoir des jeunes
interprètes qui arrivent d'émissions de variété et qui sont un petit peu
connus, des gens qui ont des fan clubs assez massifs… c'est une autre
façon de faire, c'est vrai qu'avec Arnaud, on privilégie l’histoire,
comme dans Rimbaud.
R: Yes, yes. You're right. Absolutely. Because after all it's the question of the taste. Whether you like the French musicals or not, it's the pop music performance with the story which is often not very clearly demonstrated. What is important is not necessarily that the audiences understand all of the story or what is going on, the characters and interaction... You need good songs which can be broadcast on the radio or you need young performers who appear in the pop music programs who are a little bit famous or the people who have fairly big fan club... That's another thing to do and it's true that with Arnaud, we privilege the story like in "Rimbaud".
Great memories, but...
Just let me make it clear. I LOVE French musicals. And I LOVE entertainment and French pops. Otherwise I would never have been all the way to Paris to see the French musicals! Indeed, watching the "1789 Les Amants de la Bastille" was one of the greatest memories for me. I really enjoyed this musical. I was mesmerized by the level of its perfectionism as an artistic entertainment. Nonetheless, from the perspective of the "story telling", compared with the pioneers of French musicals such as Starmania or Notre Dame de Paris, the philosophical essence is apparently weakened.
It is quite understandable when you think of the fact that the main audiences are young people and families (yes, we need a cool hero and a beautiful heroine!), but it would be nice if we could see more musicals intended for mature audiences and plus, French is the country of philosophy so it would not be a bad idea to shed the light on such aspect, I believe (which I think quite distinctive aspect of French musicals. It is phenomenal given the fact that the Notre Dame de Paris make a good balance between entertainment and such philosophical aspects.). And speaking of the songs, there is no problem for French pop (indeed very hip and I love them), but sometimes I feel like it's too pop for musical numbers (that's why I said in the question "Concert with the costumes".). But it is all about the question of the "taste" so this is just my personal opinion.
And once again, Richard articulated the importance of the story in his musical. Personally I really admire such artistic posture that they put emphasis on the story and the words (lyrics.).
- Arnaud m'a dit que c'est pour ça qu’on a créé le spectacle de Rimbaud.
- Arnaud said to me that that's why we created the musical of Rimbaud.
R:
Oui, pour l’histoire, pour mettre l'histoire en avant. Le personnage
est fabuleux, Rimbaud historiquement c’est fabuleux l’importance qu'il a
eu dans l’histoire de la littérature. Il y a tellement de jolies
petites histoires derrière la grande avec la maman, le professeur, le
meilleur ami avec Verlaine... Voilà nous, c'est notre orientation : on
veut que les gens, après deux heures, aient entendu de jolie mélodies et
qu’ils puissent s'identifier à certains personnages et ressortent de là
en se disant "Ah, tiens, j'ai appris quelques chose." Je me suis
souvenu que (surtout pour les francophones) Rimbaud est un objet
d’'étude à l'école, même si on ne le connaît pas très bien, tout le
monde sait, tout francophone sait qui est Arthur Rimbaud. Donc on essaye
de profiter de tout ça.
R: Yes, for the story, we put the story first. This person (Rimbaud) is legendary, Rimbaud is historically incredibly important in the history of the literature. There are so many beautiful little stories behind the great story, with the mother, the teacher, the best friend, with Verlaine... So, that's our orientation; we want people, after two hours, to have heard the beautiful melodies and to be able to identify oneself with certain characters and go out from the hall thinking: "Ah, well I learned something". I remembered that (especially for the francophone) Rimbaud is an object of the study at school. Even if they don't know him really well, everyone knows, every francophone knows, who Arthur Rimbaud is. So we try to make most of it.
Arnaud Kerane, co-writer of "Rimbaud"
I met him in Paris last December.
When I saw Arnaud in Paris, he said that he created this musical because the story was so interesting. So I asked Richard about it. One of the interesting things was "many little stories behind the great story", I guess. In fact I thought the exact the same thing as Richard. Such petites histoires are really touching and poignant and often really "dramatic" (The avanture with the poet Verlaine is quite well known but the confrontation with his mother Vitalie, the strong bond and subsequent rupture with his teacher/mentor Izambard, friendship with the best friend Ernest as well as the pride as a woman (Vitalie and Mathilde (Verlaine's wife)) are also the episodes that should be sheded light on.) Over all, the real life story of Rimbaud is "stranger the story" but when you look at each of these little stories, I think you can identify yourself with at least one story or another (In my case, the conflict between Vitalie and Arthur was quite familiar to me.). In another post I wrote about the lyrics of "Vitalie" (I added a bit of annotation of the lyrics.), so if you are interested, please see here. You will have a glimpse of such little story in the musical.
In addition, as Richard said, in French speaking regions, Rimbaud is quite famous, but in Japan or other Asian regions, I assume things are a bit different. Last year (2014) a play "Total Eclipse" was performed in Japan (Directed by a famous Japanese stage director Yukio Ninagawa. This play is based on the famous film "Total Eclipse" in which Rimbaud was played by Dicaprio.) so the works and the life story of Rimbaud were not "minor" story (in fact for certain people, he seems to gain cult popularity) but it is not the story that "everyone knows", I believe. To tell the truth I myself, before learning about the musical, I scarcely knew about him except for the fact that he was a French poet.
But when I searched a bit about him on the Internet, his works were quite sensational (although it is difficult to understand) and his life was utterly interesting. Everything is so dramatic and complicated. And I believe, such profoundness of the human story will transcend the frontier and language, and eventually be transmitted to the heart of the people. So I think there is a good reason that the musical should be shown to the public.
If you are interested, I put some photos when I made a trip to his home town called Charleville (Here).
"Charleville Mon Soupir" written by Arnaud
The next question was about the double sided nature of Rimbaud. Because Arnaud said to me that Rimbaud was really smart but he was canny and sometimes even dubious as well. That was quite interesting remark for me, so I asked Richard about it.
-
Arnaud m'a raconté que Rimbaud avait beaucoup de talent et était très
intelligent mais utilisait également ses facultés pour manipuler les
autres (comme ce fut le cas pour sa mère ou son professeur). On peut
penser qu’il avait deux personnalités. Qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?
- Arnaud told me that Rimbaud had a lot of talent and very intelligent but he also used these abilities for manipulating others, as was the case of his mother and his teacher. Can we say that he had a double personality? What do you think about it?
R:
Bah, oui, c'est ce qui arrive souvent quand les gens sont très très
intelligents, ils ont toujours la possibilité de manipuler les autres
pour arriver à leurs fins. Dans le cas de Rimbaud, il avait un objectif
en tête et peu importe les moyens, il était prêt à prendre toutes les
dispositions nécessaires pour y arriver, quitte à ce que ça soit un
petit peu compliqué au niveau des relations personnelles.
R: Well, yes, that's something that often happens to very intelligent people. They always have a possibility to manipulate others for achieving their goals. In the case of Rimbaud, he had an objective in his head and the way (how to achieve it) was of little importance. He was ready for making every necessary arrangement to succeed and he leaves behind the things that are a little bit complicated at the level of the personal relationships.
This particular "who cares" attitude of Rimbaud can be interpreted as arrogant but at the same time, this attitude of "detachement" is perhaps what everyone secretly dreams of, because Rimbaud is in a sense, ultimate free person (actually he uses the word "liberté libre (free freedom)"). He always followed his instinct and desire, which only mattered for him, perhaps. For most of the people, I believe, it is quite difficult to behave like Rimbaud: "I don't care what other people think, I'll do what I want". And the frictions caused by such attitude would often cost a lot. Nevertheless, this "wickedness" or "mischievousness" is also seductive and appealing to some extent.
Musée Rimbaud
Lastly, I asked Richard why he was so drawn to the charm of Rimbaud.
- Pour vous, qu'est-ce qui vous attire le plus chez Rimbaud?
- For you, what is the most attractive point about Rimbaud?
R:
Moi ce qui m'a toujours séduit (j’en ai parlé plusieurs fois avec
Arnaud) dans le personnage, c'est le fait qu’un si jeune homme, un si
jeune garçon prenne la décision de devenir un génie, ou une figure
importante de la littérature… il avait une théorie et il croyait… et au
bout de quelques années il se rend compte que ça ne tient pas : il prend
la décision d'arrêter d'écrire. Cette faculté qu’avait un jeune homme
de 20/21 ans de prendre cette décision de faire "non, c'est non, je
change d’idée je fais autre chose"... J'aurais rêvé avoir ce pouvoir-là,
même sur ma propre vie de dire "ça c'est bon pour moi " , " ça ne
l’est plus, je pars. "... Ce détachement, je l'ai toujours admiré chez
Rimbaud en dehors de la partie littéraire et de la beauté de ses textes
et de la figure de précurseur qu’il a représenté, d'avoir inventé des
formes nouvelles et tout ça… Cette capacité-là de prendre la décision :
"qu'est-ce qui est bon pour moi ? Même si ça déplait à tout le monde
même si c'est ça blesse tout le monde je m'en fous, J'y vais." C’est
vraiment ce que je préfère chez lui.
R: For me, what always seduced me (I talked about it with Arnaud many times) in the personage was the fact that such young man, such young boy takes a decision to become a genius or important figure in the literature... he had a theory and he believed it... and after a few years, he realizes that he doesn't care about it; he takes a decision to stop writing. This ability of a 20-21 year-old boy to take a decision to do "No, no, I change ideas, I'll do other things." ... I had dreamt of having that ability even in my own life to say "that's good for me.", "that's not good for me any more, I'll quit"... this detachment, that's what I always admired about Rimbaud except for the literary part and the beauty of his texts and the precursor figure that he represented and having invented the new forms and so on... This capacity of taking a decision: "What is good for me? Even if it offends everyone or hurts everyone, I don't care. I'll do it." That's really what I prefer about him.
When I asked about Rimbaud, Richard gave me an answer with his bright eyes. His eyes told me how passionate and enthusiastic about his own musical "Rimbaud".
Rimbaud abruptly abandoned his literary career despite the fact that he had huge talent. He embarked on new life and traveled all over the world until he had become fatally ill. Like Richard said, it is quite stunning that a just 20 year-old boy makes such big decision without any hesitation. Rimbaud was a true "rebel" and lived life to the fullest as his instinct led him. Listening to Richard's answer, I felt this is also exactly what I loved about Rimbaud. I really hope that one day, I could see "his story" through the musical "Rimbaud".
According to the article in Huffington Post (Here), Richard will probably play the role "Verlaine" and maybe it will be a good opportunity to discover his new talent as an artist.
リシャール、フロロにはちょっと自分は若い、と話していましたが（笑）、もし、将来フロロを演じることになったら、初の3役達成歌手になると思うので、それはそれで見てみたい気がします＾＾美形神父、、、なぜエスメラルダは恋に落ちないんだろう？という疑問が湧きそうですが（笑）、冗談はさておき、wikiのフロロのページを読んでた時、実は、リシャール・フロロ結構いけるのでは？と思いました。このページの写真、何年後かのリシャールに重なりそう（笑）だし、インテリな感じとかまさにリシャールっぽいし、エスメラルダへの欲望との間で心乱れるTu Vas Me Détruireとか「苦悩」するフロロをきっと情感豊かに演じてくれる気がします。
10月のガラコンにて。
No man's land（笑）のお話も、show biz界に生きる人ならではの悩みだと思うのですが、自分の声、そして表現力だけで役を勝ち取っていくという厳しい世界に生きる彼らへ改めてリスペクトを感じました。。。（後半のランボーの話ではないけれど、自分の才能を信じてそれに賭けて生きて行くという姿は真似はできなくとも、まさに自分が憧れる姿であったりします＾＾）
- 次の質問は、昨今のフレンチミュージカルの傾向についてなのですが、数ヶ月前パリでアルノーさん（*ランボーのミュージカルの共同製作者。パリ旅行に行った時に少しお話を伺いました。そのときの話はこちら。）にお会いした時、アルノーさんともこのことについて話したのですが、最近、フランスで演じられているミュージカルは、なんというか…若者や子供向けになってきてるような気がするんです。たとえば、私は1789 Les Amants de la Bastilleを観ましたが、スペシャル・エフェクトやセット、コスチュームやダンスは本当にすばらしいと思ったんです。でも、物語はそれに比べて、あまり重視されていないような気がしたんです。曲もどちらかというとフレンチ・ポップといった感じで、まるで、「衣装を着たコンサート」のような印象を受けました…。私の言いたいことがわかりますか？
私自身、良質なエンターテイメントは大好きです。特に、フレンチミュージカルのライティングや最新の音響効果は驚きの連続で、すごい！！！の一言しか言えません。特に最近の作品はその進歩が著しいように思います。1789や去年の12月に見たLe Bal des Vampires（ダンス・オブ・ヴァンパイアのフラ語版）で見た演出にはこんなこともできるの？！と感激のしっぱなしでした。ですが、これは個人の好みもあると思うのですが、スターマニアやノートルダムと比べると最近のミュジージカルはやっぱり考えさせられる部分というのがどうしても弱いなあという印象があり、音楽についても、フレンチポップは大好きなので、それ単体で聞いている分には全然良いのですが、1789を見た時、これミュージカルっていうより、どっちかっていうと普通のコンサートに近くないか？と私は素朴に思ったのでした（笑）。
Photo Credit: Binna (thank you for the beautiful photos!)
Merci Richard!
At the end of February, I was lucky enough to watch the show Notre Dame de Paris in Seoul, which was the 10th anniversary tour in South Korea. I have already watched the show in English in Japan and Singapore. But this time, it was a French original version and as a learner of French language, and the one who falls in love with this language, I was absolutely excited at the return of the original version. And as a fan of Richard, I couldn't wait to see him singing in French with that famous blue coat (and the wig!).
And the show was stunning. I had never thought that the difference of the language influenced the impression of the show that much. I would say it's a "different show". When I saw the English version, sometimes I was irritated with the clumsiness of the translation (For example, "Asile" -> "Asylum", "Fatalité"-> "Oh destiny" etc... As a translator, I know that there must have been a immense hard work, but even so, I couldn't hold my desire to watch the show in original French language...) but the French version was more natural, emotional and powerful. It was as if the songs and melodies penetrated through my body and the emotion reached my heart like water. Sometimes I couldn't hold my tears (Ave Maria Païen was hauntingly beautiful in French.). I was literally immersed in the world of Notre Dame de Paris and felt like I was one of the witnesses of this tragic but beautiful story.
Moreover, it's probably because of the nature of the French language, but the philosophical theme of this musical (especially the aspect of "Fatalité (fate/destiny)") stood out in original version, I guess. As you may have seen this musical, one of the virtues and particular aspects of this musical is numerous philosophical questions which are intricately woven into the musical. And in this French original version, I guess such aspect was more accentuated and I could appreciate the profoundness of this musical more clearly.
So this show reminds me once again that the songs and the lyrics are inseparable and this unification does really matter after all. I posted the pictures in other articles so if you're interested, please see here and here.
I saw Richard's performance in the first row and I absolutely loved his performance. His voice was splended in "Le Temps des Cathédrales"and I was immediately drawn to the "Blue World" of Notre Dame de Paris. But his "Fatalité" was especially memorable for me. This song is very short but it summarizes the whole theme of this musical: we all are in the hand of fate. In fact I couldn't help thinking about my own fate or destiny (I know it's a bit exaggerated but...) that brings me this far, which I couldn't imagine a few years ago. But I was really grateful that I could reach this point. So in a lot of senses, I was full of emotions during the show.
After the show, I had a chance to talk with Richard. He plays the role of Gringoire in this tour, but actually he has played the role of Phœbus and Gringoire more than 10 years. And in this tour, he celebrated his 700th performance in Notre Dame de Paris. So I asked a few questions about his carrer in Notre Dame de Paris and the two characters that he has played.
I added French script (thank you, my friend A for correcting my poor French!), but there might be mistakes here and there. And my English translation is not perfect but hope you enjoy it!
And lastly, thank you always for your kindness, Richard!
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- Félicitations pour votre 700eme représentation à Notre Dame de Paris! Vous avez joué deux rôles, notamment Phœbus et Gringoire, mais quelle est la différence entres les deux rôles? Ou qu'est-ce que vous aimez par rapport a ces deux rôles?
- Congratulations on your 700th performance in Notre Dame de Paris! You played two roles, notably, Phœbus and Gringoire, however, what are the differences between these two roles? And what do you love about these roles?
Photo Credit: Binna
He patiently tried to "decode" my poor French...
(Sorry, I abruptly started my recording, so the conversation started in a very odd way... but Richard started to talk about his first role: Phœbus. )
R : ...j'ai beaucoup aimé le côté meneur d'homme, leader ou chef voilà, celui qui arrive...et qui est assure d'absolument tout, qui ne doute de rien... jusqu'au moment où il croise et regarde Esmeralda et là tout son univers....là je suis plus sur de rien. Ça j'aime beaucoup cette partie-là de Phœbus. Forcement chanter « Déchiré », « Belle »... c'est des grands morceaux.
R: … (Speaking of Phœbus,) I loved the aspect of being a leader or the head of the people. He is the one who is able to... who is assured of everything and has no doubts, until he comes across and looks at Esmeralda and her world... Then I'm (he is) no longer sure about anything. That is what I love about Phœbus. Inevitably, singing "Déchiré", "Belle"... those are the great songs.
Mais Gringoire... la responsabilité d'être le narrateur, le fil rouge entre les scènes...d'expliquer aux gens « là il se passe ceci»... C'est un rôle qui est plus riche et les chansons, « Cathédrales », « Florence », ou « Lune »... c'est des chansons sublimes. Et il a d'avantage d'interaction avec les danseurs et les acrobates. Phœbus est un petit peu... à part les soldats...
But for Gringoire... (I love) the responsibility to be a narrator and the conductor (guide) between the scenes... for explaining to the people what is going on here... It's the role that is richer and the songs "(Le Temps des) Cathédrales", "Florence" or "Lune"... Those songs are sublime. And he has an advantage of interaction with the dancers and the acrobats. Phœbus is a little bit... apart from the soldiers...
- Il y a des scènes de danse...
- There are dance sequences...
R : Voilà ! Un petit plus de scènes comme ça, donc je trouve... un peu c'est pour ça, c'est la raison pour laquelle j'ai voulu changer, je le trouve un peu plus riche et plus intéressant.
R: That's right! A little bit more scenes like that, so I think that's why, that's the reason why I wanted to change it, and I find it a little bit richer and more interesting.
- Vous avez joué les rôles beaucoup de fois, mais il y a une évolution ou changement dans ces rôles ?
- You played the roles many times but is there any evolution or change in these roles?
R : Oui, l'évolution, elle est toute naturelle entre le moment où on apprend le rôle et on commence à se familiariser avec les déplacement et avec les chansons et tout. Moi, j'ai bien aimé dans l'évolution de Phœbus... J'ai pris les cents premières représentations pour me rassurer, pour me dire "Ah oue, je peux le faire dans toutes les situations", parce qu'au début on chante on est fatigué, on chante on est malade, on chante on n'a trop mangé, pas assez mangé, on a trop dormi... Etre chanteur de comédie musicale c'est se réveiller le matin, et voir "bon ok, je suis dans cet état la, qu'est que ça va donner ce soir sur scène", parce qu'on est jamais dans le même état d'esprit, dans le même et physique et... la première centaine de représentations a servi à me rassurer, a me dire "Bon ok, ça va aller."
R: Yes, evolution is very natural between the moment when you understand the role (just in your head) and when you start to be familiar with the movement and the songs and everything. I loved the evolution in the Phœbus. I took the first 100 performances for assuring myself, saying to myself "Ah, I can play it in any situation." because at first, you sing, you're tired and you sing, you become ill and you sing, you eat too much or not enough, you sleep too much... Being a musical singer is like getting up in the morning and see, "OK, I'm in this condition, so what am I going to do on stage tonight?" because you will never be in the same mental or physical condition... and the first hundred performances served me to assure myself, to say to myself "OK, it's going to be alright."
La deuxième centaine, là c'était chanter très très fort... et pour le moment celle que j'ai le plus apprécié c'est à partir du moment ou j'étais rendu à trois cent représentations, j'ai commencé à nuancer d'avantage... J'ai évité de hurler ou de chanter très fort pour rien quand c'était pas nécessaire. Donc c'était plus agréable cette partie-là, la deuxième partie.
From the 200th to 300th performance, I sang at the top of my lung (laugh). It was from the time when I achieved 300th performance that I could appreciate (the role) more profoundly. I started to add more nuances. I avoided singing loudly when it's not necessary. So I was more confortable in this part, the second part.
Photo Credit: Binna
Alors que Gringoire j'ai tout de suite aimé le rôle, j'ai tout de suite aimé ce que je pouvais faire, il y a tellement d'interaction avec les autres comédiens, les chanteurs, que chaque spectacle est un peu différent parce que si on est, euh...
On the other hand, for Gringoire, I came to love this role and what I could do (with this role) right away, there are so many interactions with other actors, singers, that every show is a little bit different. Because if you...
Richard playing Gringoire in 2015 (Seoul)
Phœbus est très souvent tout seul quand il chante, et quand il est seul, bah, il y a pas 50 façons de faire les gestes... par exemple, pour « Déchiré », il est tout seul, « Je reviens ver toi », c'est pareil, rejoindrant Fleur de Lys mais... « L'ombre », il est tout seul, il y a beaucoup de chansons il se retrouve complètement seul...
Phœbus is very often alone when he sings, and when he sings he is alone, well, there are not 50 ways to do the gestures... For example, Déchiré, he is alone, Je reviens ver toi, it's almost the same, Fleur de Lys will join but... L'ombre, again he is alone. There are many songs that he found himself completely alone.
Gringoire a beaucoup plus d'interaction, donc la réaction de l'autre chanteur modifie la façon de jouer parce que, euh..."ah il a fait ça ce soir, il a fait ça, bon je réagis comment?"... donc c'est plus intéressant.
Gringoire interacts much more, so the reaction of the other singer modifies the way of playing, because uh... "tonight, he plays like this, so how should I react to it?" so, it's more interesting.
- Il y'a des éléments improvisés?
- Is there any element of improvisation?
R : Des fois, si il y a des problèmes techniques, si il y a des problèmes de costume, de truc, etc... il faut ajuster un petit peu ce qui se passe... si sur la face très glissante et qu'on perd l'équilibre, il faut l'adapter tout ça, donc...euh, il y a un petit peu, pas beaucoup. Mais un petit peu d'improvisation. Bon, pas tellement, parce que c'est quand même un spectacle qui est calibré…
R: From time to time, if there are technical problems or problems of costumes or like that. We have to adjust a little bit along with what is happening... if the stage is very slippery and we lose balance, we have to adapt ourselves. So, there is a little bit improvisation, but not a lot. But a bit of improvisation. Well not exactly, because the show is regulated after all.
- Quel est le meilleur souvenir depuis le début de Notre Dame de Paris?
- What is the best memory in your career in the Notre Dame de Paris?
R : Bah, un des meilleurs souvenirs que j'ai par rapport à Gringoire, c'est ici, il y a 10 ans.
R: Well, one of the best memories in relation to Gringoire is, here, 10 years ago.
- La première fois? - The first time?
R : La première fois, c'était, c'était...et la réaction des gens était tellement forte qu'on ne peut pas oublier, c'était tellement fort et émouvant que ça a changé... ça a tout changé, la dynamique de ma présence dans Notre Dame. J'ai de très très beau souvenirs par rapport à Pœbus, mais c'est plus des lieus on chantait à Beyrouth ou au Liban, on chantait des symphoniques à Montréal... c'est plus des lieus comme ça. Alors que Gringoire, ça a été la rencontre d'un personnage avec une ville ou un pays et la réaction des gens et tout ça donc voilà!
R: The first time, it was... the reaction of the people was so strong that I cannot forget about it. It was so strong and moving that it changed everything... It changed everything, my dynamic presence in the Notre Dame de Paris. I have very very beautiful memories in relation to Pœbus, but it's more about the places we sang, like in Beirut or Lebanon, we sang in Montreal... It was more like the places like that. On the other hand, concerning Gringore, it was the meeting with the city and the country through the role and the reaction with the people!
- J'ai lu un article sur vous (*) et c'est vrai qu'au début vous avez auditionné pour le rôle de Frollo?! C'était marrant !
－I read the article about your career （＊）but at first you applied for the audition of the role of Frollo?! That was a bit funny!
R : Je pensais que... ouais... physiquement j'avais pas le rôle... Je pensais que le rôle de Phœbus était trop haut, le rôle de Gringoire aussi, c'était trop haut pour ma voix, donc les mélodies étaient trop hautes. Alors je me suis dit je vais essayer le rôle de Frollo qui est un peu plus bas, avec des notes plus basses, et moi ca me convenait d'avantage. Et forcément, bah quand j'ai rencontré Plamondon, il a pas était questions de Frollo du tout... Des qu'il est arrive dans la pièce tout suite il a dit "ah c'est Phoebus". C'est lui qui m'a demandé de faire Phœbus parce que il est arrivé dans la pièce et il m'a regardé et il m'a dit "ah mais c'est Pœbus!" "Et j'ai fait bah…oui...oui (rire)". Donc après je me suis pas posé de question et puis au final, j'ai adapté ma voix un petit peu, c'est-à-dire que ça demande peut-être plus d'efforts parce que les chansons sont difficiles à faire, mais c'est un tel plaisir que si c'était trop facile, je pense que j'aurais arrêté Notre Dame...
R: I thought that, well, I knew that physically I wasn't fit to the role... but I thought that (the note for) the role of Phœbus was too high and the role of Gringoire too. They were too high for my voice, the melody was too high. So I said to myself that I was going to try for the role of Frollo, which is lower, the notes are lower, and I thought that it would serve me as the advantage. And inevitably, I met Plamondon (*Composer of the Notre Dame de Paris), and he didn't ask anything about Frollo. As soon as he arrived at the room, he immediately said "it's Phœbus!". It was he that asked me to play the role. (Laughing ) "Well... I'll do it... yes, yes... " So without thinking too much (I took the role), and in the end, I adapted my voice a little bit, which means it needs perhaps more efforts because the songs are difficult to do, but it was such a pleasure that if it was too easy, I would have stopped (being a part of) Notre Dame de Paris.
- Même si vous avez commencé votre carrière dans Notre Dame de Paris en jouant Phœbus, à ce moment-là, est-ce que vous aviez l'envie de jouer le rôle de Gringoire un jour?
- Even though at first you started your carrer in the Notre Dame de Paris as Phœbus, did you already have an ambition to play the role of Gringoire one day?
R: Au début quand j'ai commencé Phœbus, j'étais très très concentré sur mon rôle parce que je me disais c'est soir après soir a chanter. Quand j'ai réussi la première centaine de spectacles, après j'ai commencé à être un peu plus détendu, et là je regardais Gringoire, et je me disais "ah, moi je ferais ça si j'avais le rôle (rire) "et très très tôt j'ai commencé à réfléchir à ça, et l'opportunité juste avant la tournée asiatique, je suis allé voir la production, je lui ai dit euh... j'aimerais bien jouer le rôle et ils ont accepté... donc c'était tant mieux pour moi, parce que j'ai eu tellement de plaisir, et je continue à en avoir, tellement de plaisir sur scène.
R: When I started to play Phœbus, I was very very concentrated on my role because I thought I had to sing night after night. When I succeeded in the first 100 performances, and after that I started to become more relaxed, and at that moment, I looked at Gringoire wondering, "Ah, if I got the role...I would do this way... (laugh)". I started to think about it at a very early stage. And just before the Asian tour, the opportunity (came) and I went to see the production and I said to him that I would like to play the role and they accepted it. So it was very lucky for me. Because I was really pleased that I could continue to be on stage.
- Donc l'interaction avec les autres comédiens, ça vous intéresse ?
- So... is it interesting for you to have interactions with other actors?
R : Oui, parce que mes moments préférés sur la scène, c'est « Belle ». Je chante pas. Je suis simplement là, je suis témoin de l'action, et après j'essaie de comprendre "ah, oui il est amoureux d'elle, très bien! Ah, il y en a un deuxième qui est amoureux, et un troisième, oh la la! (rire) ." Ça c'est le genre de chose que j'aime faire. C'est pas nécessairement des scènes où on chante et j'essaie de meubler un peu mes déplacements et tout ça pour euh... Je considère que les gens à chaque fois qu'ils voient Gringoire sur la scène, c'est surtout Gringoire je faisais, c'est une référence par rapport à l'histoire puisque c'est le narrateur. À chaque fois qu'ils me regardent. Même si je chante pas il faut que j'envoie l'attention là où il y'a des choses qui se passent. Alors je me sens responsable et donc des fois c'était juste "oh qu'est qui se passe par là-bas, et les gens..." moi je sens que s'il y des gens qui me regardent, ils vont regarder là, alors je fais mon métier de narrateur. Voilà.
R: Yes, because my favorite moments on stage are actually "Belle". I don't sing. I'm simply there and I witness the action and after that, I try to understand: "Ah, he falls in love with her, well done! Ah the second one also falls in love with her... and the third one... Oh my god! (laugh)". That is the sort of thing that I love doing. It's not necessarily the scenes where I sing and I tried to keep the audience interested with my action. I consider that every time the audience see Gringore on stage, especially Gringoire that I played, he is regarded as the reference (guide) to the story. Even if I don't sing, I have to pay attention to what is going on. So I feel that I have a responsibility, so at times it was just (explaining) what's going on there and the people... but I feel that if there are people who look at me, and they are going to look out there, I will do my job as a narrator.
***Before talking with Richard, I have never thought about the role of Gringoire in "Belle", but watching this scene remembering his talk, this scene looked completely different. This scene reminds me of the uniqueness of the role of Gringoire in this show. He is not a hero, or villain but he appears almost everywhere and works as the intermediary in the story. Without him, this story doesn't exist.***
- Quelle est la particularité de votre version de Gringoire par rapport aux autres comédiens qui jouent Gringoire?
- Is there any particular element in your Gringoire compared to Gringoires that other singers played?
R : Moi j'y ai ajouté un petit peu de légèreté... d'humour et de charme... et d'insouciance peut-être un petit peu, donc des fois il est un peu surpris de ce qui se passe, des fois effrayé, des fois.... c'est ce que j'avais lu... quand j'ai lu le roman de Notre Dame de Paris, j'ai un souvenir très fort du personnage de Gringoire qui me faisait rire. Quand on lit le roman, parce qu'il est peu heureux, parce qu'il était effrayé, parce ce qu'il essaie mais ça ne fonctionne pas, il aimerait être reconnu comme poète mais il est pas très très bon non plus, alors ça je... la première fois que j'ai vu Notre Dame de Paris, je le sentais pas dans le spectacle parce que c'était très sérieux et très.... comme ça, et moi je ｍe suis dit des que je vais avoir l'occasion de le faire je vais ajouter un petit peu ces touches-là d'humeur et de légèreté. Donc ça j'ai impression que c'est... voilà ça c'est ma touche, a moi. Les autres ils font ce qu'ils veulent...c'est... moi je tenais à apporter cette petite partie là donc...
R: I added a little bit of lightness, humor and the charm... and a bit of idleness perhaps. So he is sometimes surprised at what is happening (around him), and at times he got intimidated... That's what I read in the book. When I read the novel of Notre Dame de Paris, I remembered very well that the personage of Gringoire made me laugh. Because when I read the novel, he was less fortunate and he tried (many things) but it doesn't work out well, besides he would love to be recognized as a great poet but he wasn't that good anyway (laugh)... For the first time I saw the Notre Dame de Paris, I didn't feel that element in the musical because it was too serious... so I said to myself that if I would have an opportunity to play that role, I would add a little bit this kind of touch of humor and the lightness. So, that is my touch, mine. Others do whatever they want to do but I try to bring this element...
Richahrd in his role of Gringoire at Sejong Centre in Seoul
- Est-ce que vous avez eu peur quand vous avez eu les rôles des grands chanteurs comme Bruno Pelletier ou Patrick Fiori?
- Was there any fear to inherit the role from the great singers like Bruno Pelletier ou Patrick Fiori?
R : C'est beaucoup de pression, parce que de toutes façons, Garou, Patrick Fiori, Bruno, Daniel Lavoie... a partir du moment où on arrive après eux, on est tout suite comparé mais plutôt que c'est plus...c'est plus de la pression c'est devenue une inspirationplus qu'autre chose. Bruno, j'ai un respect immense pour ce qu'il fait, c'est un ami je, je... il a une voix exceptionnelle ... il y'a très peu de chanteurs français qui ont ces voix la, et moi j'ai apporte autre chose, probablement dans la narration, dans l'histoire. Moi ce qui m'intéresse, c'est de bien amener les chansons, bien sûr mais l'histoire... c'est l'histoire qui compte donc... Voilà!
R: It was a big pressure, because in every aspect, Garou, Patrick Fiori, Bruno, Daniel Lavoie... ever since when we came after them, we are compared with them right away. But it was more like... it was more than a pressure... eventually the pressure became an inspiration more than anything. Bruno, I have an immense respect for him, and he is a friend... he has an exceptional voice... there are very few francophone singers who have that voice, so I brought other things, probably in the narration or in the story. What is interesting for me is bringing the songs, for sure, but the story, that really counts, so, voila!
After the show...
Richard smiling at the book of Rimbaud, a gift from the fan.
I did another "petite interview"with Richard, and hopefully I can post this one too...
To be continued...
Second part is here.
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